Dbzero Governance Vote Post https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/63525728
Ahoy mateys!
A few of our users have recently pointed out that a lot of the pro-Zionist accounts on the fediverse nowadays seem to come from the feddit.org instance.
But whatever the excuse happens to be, they need to do better imo. Israel is currently the most violent, fascist and genocidal nation state in the Middle East (if you exclude the US military bases there). And yet feddit.org seems to regard the Palestinians fighting against Israel’s ongoing illegal occupation of their land as the real terrorists. …
More context
Our instance already voted to ban pro-Zionist accounts (see https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/60585441 for reference) and the rule that was implemented is here: Golden Rule #8.
As further context, you can find relevant comments and discussion in this post by a banned feddit admin in MoG (that fact they chose to post in MoG is in itself quite telling), and this post about their defederation from quokk.au over anti-semitism allegations has recently become active again. …
Note 2: If you think feddit.org deserves a full instance ban instead, or have alternative suggestions, then please leave your comments below. If enough people think that’s the better option, then we’ll do that instead.
In the end the Post had around 70% of support by dbzer0 users, who in the comments also called for defederation.
Here is a Link to Dbzer0 instances tab https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/instances where if you go to blocked instances you can see fedddit.org is now defederated
i dont think feddit has made a post now, but when they do i will add it
That’s not what I said that in response to. This doesn’t mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups. Not the same position. Opposing the form doesn’t mean I oppose the concept.
A sentence so steeped in colonial attitudes it’s practically tea.
😂
Exactly my point, you think you have any moral right to decide in what form and shape the local resistance against Zionism has to take shape, and otherwise it doesnt get your support.
There are material reasons why Hamas is structured the way it is, and you may not like them or share all their goals, but their primary goal is the liberation of Palestine from Zionism and you should support them in that
If that’s your point, you replied to the wrong comment of mine earlier.
When I said “I don’t agree on that claim, no.” I was specifically referring to the claim that I oppose resistance to genocide, period. When in reality I’m opposing the form that resistance is taking, not resistance itself. That’s why I said I don’t agree with the claim made.
You don’t seem to argue with that fact, you’re just arguing about my actual position. Which isn’t what I was denying.
So, you do support Hamas?
You’re really not arguing in good faith, are you? Not supporting hamas doesn’t mean I’m not in favor of resistance against genocide.
But just to clear this up once more:
So no, I do not support Hamas. But yes, I do support Palestinian resistance in theory.
“I don’t oppose resistance against genocide, I just coincidentally oppose all groups resisting genocide”
Look, you’re free to keep replying, but I’m not going to further talk here. I’m just writing this last comment to clarify that, so you can stop wasting your time. I realize that you’re not arguing in good faith, so this is just going to go on endlessly otherwise.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
Wow, we have a contender for most The Most Western Sentence of all time
They really managed to do worse than their earlier “This doesn’t mean I oppose resistance to genocide, this means I have expectations towards resistance groups.”
So my point was correct, Hamas is not morally pure enough for your standards, and you don’t support resistance against genocide in practice, which is what matters because that’s the actually existing resistance against genocide.
Hamas is supposed to be an enlightened leftist organization despite their members being executed, starved and deprived of the most basic resources by the people who threw them out of the lands they used to inhabit. Maybe, just maybe, there are material reasons caused by Israel that make Hamas not conform to your (or my) theoretical ideals?
What I don’t agree with is that wording.
I don’t support this specific form of resistance against genocide in practice. What you wrote there most literally means I don’t support resistance against genocide in practice in general, which is what I can’t agree with. If we’re just talking about Hamas specifically, or the shape that resistance has taken in this genocide specifically, then I agree with the statement. But the way it’s written here and was written before, I can’t agree with it, it’s too broadly worded and easily misconstrued when taken out of context.
Ok, so it’s not that you oppose resistance to all genocides, you just oppose resistance to the Palestinian genocide.
Oh my fucking god, they just admitted it.
This is just linguistic gymnastics, though. Hamas, and the broader Palestinian resistance, is the resistance to genocide. There isn’t another, and better groups like the PFLP all work with Hamas, because they are fighting genocide and extermination.