I heard about the whole AI moderation thing and I’m trying to move to a new fedispace.
Back then I registered on KBin instead of Lemmy before I moved here on MBin because the KBin instance had issues. Didn’t care for the UI but the reason why I did that is because of whatever the hell Lemmy devs are heading to
Staff-wise yes but user count-wise no
Mbin, PieFed, Lemmy… They’re all part of the same federated network. If an admin or mod of some server does something you don’t approve of, you block their instance and jog on.
Well, I’m not an admin of nothing.
I went lemmy (very early, still with auto-refresh, etc.) for a very short time due to hating it to kbin, later mbin, and now piefed. I’m not sure if I like piefed better. I don’t care about mastodon or other similar platforms so that may change your decision.
I love Mbin, but it’s no alternative for your use case. That AI moderation will keep affecting you as long as you interact with those affected communities, no matter which software you use yourself.
I’ll give you my number one reason for why I stuck with kbin and mbin since the beginning. They have the best hot sort. It emulates Reddit much better than the other ways of sorting. I have fedia set up with pages, no unlimited doomscrolling, and large thumbnails so I can quickly peruse anime porn.
People don’t talk about this enough, Lemmy’s “Hot” sort is kinda garbage lol. It leans too heavily towards new posts. Same thing with sorting comments by Hot. “Active” is more in-line with what Reddit users expect, or something like Top 6 Hours. I haven’t tested Mbin’s “Hot” much.
I remember a user on Reddit saying that Lemmy is dead because they looked at All+Hot and saw very few comments. On Lemmy right now I go to All+Hot and the front page posts mostly have 0 to 3 comments. All+Active is showing mostly posts with 50 to 200 comments. All+Top 6 Hours mostly has 5 to ~30 comments.
I agree.
Compare https://lemmy.world/?dataType=Post&listingType=All&sort=Hot with https://piefed.social/home/hot/all for example.
Do you think it would make sense renaming
ActivetoHotand vice versa?I think maybe it would be better to just tweak the Hot algorithm slightly. Maybe either adjust the curve, or use
max(age, 1 hour)in the calculation so that new content is not favored quite as hard, aka new content is scored as if it were an hour old.But you could make a dedicated discussion post asking about this, so more people can see
I asked @dessalines@lemmy.ml about this as he is more familiar with the ranking algos:
Maybe not renaming active, but possibly renaming hot… but IMO they’re fine. Its just different from reddit, and more like the hackernews algorithm: join-lemmy.org/docs/contributors/07-ranking-algo.html#hacker-news . It’s more new-focused to prevent the main problem of reddits which is rewarding first posts / comments, regardless of their quality
Oh no, what are these anime communities so I can make sure to avoid them?
Nothing against Mbin, but how would it help with the AI moderation issue? From what I understand about the AI moderation, it was a group of mods that sent a user’s history into a model for analysis. That will still be possible with Mbin, and anywhere else
I liked kbin a lot because earnest was pretty prolific with improvements. mbin felt a bit like maintenance mode. I went to piefed because it seemed to be very active with improved tools for the user and such.
After being used to mbin (and previously kbin), I can’t stand lemmy. Better layout, little bit better visibility into activity, reasonable federation/defederation choices with other instances, etc.
Just try it out for a while.
Might wanna consider the admins response first:
- https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/42252997/20359964
- https://lem.lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/42212552/20347120
tl;dr: There is no AI moderation, the mod team built a tool to more conveniently get a user history in case a user needed some investigating based off reports they got. They tried a couple times to ingest what the tool returned into a local LLM for a summary but found in overall lacking. In one instance the local LLM’s finding matched what the mods had already found manually and seeing how the summary was concise just posted that.
This is not a problem of the lemmy software, this could as well happened on any fediverse instance. Your posts, your DMs, everything you do on the fediverse is federated and can therefore be seen by the instances it’s federated with.
But why even move, this is the fediverse, make accounts wherever you want and use them at the same time? I use this account for wider posting and have a hexbear as well as lemmy.ml account for local posting (although I sometimes confuse this account with the .ml account).
I can’t open the first link for some reason. But I also found this post to be useful: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/59687224
Yeah they lost the plot and just deleted the thread…
Honestly it just looks a bit different. Same community and people (one of the benefits of the fediverse). I remember it was a fork of another project (I want to say Kbin but im not sure).
Yes, it was /kbin. I liked it there.
Yeah, it’s KBin.
More, as you have access to Mastodon/Misskey/Akkoma/etc. users too
I have an Mbin account I don’t really use, because I prefer Piefed features (personal feed similar to multireddits, comments consolidation) compared to Mbin (microblogging support).
It’s really a personal decision.
I heard about the whole AI moderation thing
Can you fill me in please?
If they’re third party tools and not built-in features of lemmy/piefed, why does this reflect badly on them? And wouldn’t a mod at mbin be able to implement them in their community?
Long Story Short: A bot got created in Lemmy and Piefed to moderate around.
Switching to mbin won’t help you with that since it’s the same communities.
Ahhh no no it’s not a bot - the moderator is using OpenAI to check if a user has said anything that makes them a promoter of a political ideology that they consider to be bannable.
The human mod still presses the ban button themselves, manually.
Didn’t they say it was a local model?
Yeah also the whole “they’re trying to police wrongthink” is funny coming from the dev that implemented this:
Imagine the outcry if someone had a warning label: “🚨 Promotes zionist perspective”see e.g. https://piefed.social/post/2035412apparently it’s not on a user basis but for certain sites
Whoa, I didn’t know it! I hate this.
Uh sorry apparently it’s not on a user basis but for certain sites, still a shitty thing to do but not as egregious
Try it and see.
It takes all of about a minute to sign up for an instance and it doesn’t cost anything, so there’s no reason not to do it. If you like it, great and if you don’t, you’re not out anything.
For the record I actually prefer KBin/MBin - they just have a better interface than Lemmy. But KBin was a one-man effort and when the guy running it burnt out, it soet of fell by the wayside. MBin is a fork that was meant to be a more open project, but the guy who was mostly responsible for it is a bit of a twat and mostly used it to pimp Monero, so it never quite caught on like it should have.
You might also sign up for an instance or two on piefed. The guy who’s mostly responsible for that is also a bit of a twat, but he’s had some good help and some people pushing back against his tyrannically censorious tendencies, so it’s pretty decent.
The only way you’re ever really going to know what you think about any of them is to try them out for yourself. And there’s literally no reason not to.
You might also sign up for an instance or two on piefed. The guy who’s mostly responsible for that is also a bit of a twat
If you mean Rimu, I haven’t seen any examples of that. Explain?
I tried getting through that mess, but was left even more confused than when I began.
TL;DR?
The post I linked (the last link) contains the deleted comment from dbzero admin. And it’s basically a TL;DR of the events.
Edit: Interesting, looks like the comment (and others from that person) aren’t displayed on piefed.
But the person doesn’t appear to be banned: https://piefed.social/u/mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone
Thanks. I’m just going to drop this one, as I don’t have the energy to dig further in to this, and no dogs in this ‘fight.’
Piefed by default auto-subscribes accounts to a curated set of communities, auto-hides downvoted content and downvoted posters, attaches icons to accounts to mark those that have beyond a particular threshold of downvotes and entirely blocks links to a curated set of sites because Rimu deemed them to be unacceptable.
The only saving grace is that at this point those (anti-)features are generally toggleable at least at the admin level, but that’s thanks to wjs018.
Piefed by default auto-subscribes accounts to a curated set of communities
When I first signed up, I was given a ‘checkbox system’ to subscribe to /c’s of interest. IIRC I also had the option of signing up for none. That said, if PF auto-subscribes to some core communities (like META, help, Fediverse, etc), then I’m not really seeing a problem?
auto-hides downvoted content and downvoted posters
I mean… I see plenty of downvoted content & posters in my subscribed feed. Maybe that’s not the case with ALL, tho? TBH, that sounds like SOP in terms of social media.
attaches icons to accounts to mark those that have beyond a particular threshold of downvotes
I like it, as that generally helps identify low-effort & toxic posters. I guess I can see the point though that it might accidentally sweep up others, simply because they’re challenging or whatnot. On the whole though, I certainly don’t have a problem with that little bit of extra info, which I’m free to do with as I please.
entirely blocks links to a curated set of sites because Rimu deemed them to be unacceptable.
Yeah. Personally I would have liked to have some access to various NSFW content, as I’m not a child, but then again, PF.S is Rimu’s home instance, and as the dev and head admin, I absolutely do not have a problem with him doing that. I mean, if I really wanted to work around that, there are plenty of other PF instances as a base…
So at the end of the day, you seem to be calling someone a “bit of a twat” based on policy decisions. Someone who’s donated loads of his personal time, effort and brainwaves to a community project for loads of others to enjoy. Can’t say that sounds particularly cool to me, mate.
So at the end of the day, you seem to be calling someone a “bit of a twat” based on policy decisions. Someone who’s donated loads of his personal time, effort and brainwaves to a community project for loads of others to enjoy. Can’t say that sounds particularly cool to me, mate.
Good summary
I think the commenter above is referring to this: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/53741035/23561666
Edit: I also just learned about this: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/59644504/25592855
I’m thinking of making a replacement NSFW account a piefed based instance after lemmynsfw died. I just like most of what piefed has quite a bit, especially consolidating similar posts’ comments.
Or maybe I should go back to mbin and find some artists on mastodon/misskey and put in more effort weaning off xitter. Still annoyed that a lot of artists are still on it.
https://fedinsfw.app/ is there for you
Thanks for the reminder!
but the guy who was mostly responsible for it is a bit of a twat and mostly used it to pimp Monero
Oh damn, I missed that bit if fedi drama. Is there a writeup of what happened anywhere?
Without his twattiness there would be no Mbin. And a legacy of /kbin would likely be as forgotten as e.g. Prismo…
The fork happened when Ernest was already struggling with his commitments in firefighting on emerging kbin.social technical issues, developing things which would prevent these issues to happen again, refactoring the code, likely work and life and - as a nail to the coffin - some health problems. Forking out of project leader during his troubles couldn’t not look like a some kind of backstab. However, Ernest, in a typically Polish way, has never trusted anybody else enough to enable one to develop /kbin further. This circumstances of the forking are the crux of this drama.
Melroy technically initiated the forking of Mbin, but the project itself embraces C4 and has got no (benevolent or not) dictators. Neither of largest Mbin instances are operated by maintainters of Mbin.
I liked /kbin more than Mbin, but the former eventually collapsed. You still will be able to follow people from e.g. Mastodon or Misskey and sort their posts like on Lemmy. Or subscribe/follow to any Ghost/WriteFreely/any federated WordPress blog and benefit from probably the best interface to read long forms on federation.
Thank you for the writeup! I wasn’t actually familiar with the C4 project structure and it’s cool that Mbin went with thay. I do remember Ernest and how that went down but I was curious about the Monero-pimping stuff. I was digging a bit but I couldn’t find any information on that point
I dunno. I just noticed it as it was happening.
i don’t know about about AI moderation, but I like mbin. I also like the fact that I can interact with the majority of the Fediverse in one account.
I tried out mbin via fedia.io for a while because it was one of the few Fedi microblog instances that wasn’t blocking Threads, because I wanted to get updates directly from USMLR league and teams, but that didn’t really an out (half the teams weren’t on Threads and of the accounts that were none had enabled the Fediverse compatibility). So I haven’t really continued on with that account.
